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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 28, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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for trial in the united states if the events happen here. it is likely he committed it with bad intent? >> ted simon, thank you for your guidance on this tonight on "all in." >> republicans continue a rhetorical onslaught on iran. senator dick dirben is here. donald trump soars in new hampshire and crashes in the daily beast. a trump adviser threatening a reporter and back trapping after insisting there is no such thing as spousal rape. then, the new sandra bland video that texas officials hope will end speculation about a cover-up in her death. the minnesota dentist accused of illegally killing a lion in zimbabwe.
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my interview with the first woman ever hired to coach in the nfl. >> i could not have dreamed big enough to imagine that this day would ever come. "all in" starts now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. republican presidential candidate mike huckabee is standing by comments, effectively equating obama to adolf hitler. marching israelis to the door of the oven. this morning on the "today show." huckabee defended his words. >> you are not backing down? >> the response from jewish people has been overwhelmingly positive, from holocaust survivors, from the children of holocaust survivors. >> as president of the united states would you use the word march the israelis to the door of the oven? >> yes, i would. i will tell you why. i have been to auschwitz three times. i have stood at the very place. >> what huckabee may have missed
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both u.s. jewish groups have condemned his remarks. "usa today" spoke with israeli ambassador, ron dermer, former republican operative and ally of benjamin netanyahu who agrees substantively with huckabee in opposition to the deal. >> i don't think it's appropriate. we don't impugn the motives of the people who are doing this deal i think it's important to conduct the debate. >> while huckabee's language may be extreme, the analogy to nazis and the holocaust is mainstream in republican rhetoric about the deal. >> this is the equivalent of giving adolf hitler weapons of mass destruction. >> i think it rivals neville chamberlain's negotiations with hitler. huckabee blasting bush for saying he should quote tone down the rhetoric. huckabee has one defender, ted
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cruz gave a press conference today with opponents of the deal. >> if this deal goes through the obama administration send billions to jihadists who will use the money to murder americans. they do not want to address the substance of governor huckabee, and prime minister netanyahu, all said, that this deal poses a threat of murdering millions of americans and anyone who stand with israel should be categorically opposed to the deal. >> people who support the nuclear deal. moveon, mobilizing a grassroots campaign to put pressure on members of congress during their august recess. today a star-studded ad in favor of the deal went up on youtube.
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>> the agreement currently on the table is the best way to ensure iran doesn't build a [ bleep ] bomb. >> and it gives the international community unprecedented access to verify that iran is keeping up its end of the bargain. >> a strong deal built on international diplomacy is the best way forward. >> the alternative to that is war. >> war with iran is a really bad idea. >> the worst idea ever. >> look, we all love our children. and the iranians love their children. >> and [ bleep ] they've got a deal on the table that keeps us all safe. >> the deal got key endorsement from sander levin. we haven't heard from the one lawmaker in the president's party who is widely seen as a bellwether for the deal's fate. new york senator chuck shem ser, i spoke with one of schumer's colleagues, illinois senator dick dirben, i asked him how he reacted to mike huckabee's comments. >> those comments were outrageous. when you consider the moral
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tragedy of the holocaust and what it meant to the world. i think he should have been much more careful in the language that he used. certainly no reflection on the efforts by this president and by many of us to try to make sure that the nation of israel and the jewish people will have a homeland for generations to come. >> i have to say that while the imagery he used was particularly grotesque, the general metaphor that what we are seeing in this iran nuclear deal essentially representing a munich moment that this is appeasment, essentially striking diplomacy with a regime tantamount to the third reich is quite present among many of your republican colleagues. >> there are allusions to that. to neville chamberlain. probably quoted more often by republican colleagues than most
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former british leaders. fact of the matter is this. this is the same rhetoric used against ronald reagan when he sat down with the soviet union and decided he would negotiate to reduce the number of nuclear arms in the world. they said he was appeasing, a suicide pact. the harshest criticism from the right. same thing was true when richard nixon said let's open up relationship with red china. there were critics who said what is he doing? these are the people inspiring and funding the killers of american soldiers in vietnam. that they condemned him for it. it is a reality that if you are going to have a meaningful negotiation you will be sitting across the table from usually an enemy. some one you don't ordinarily do business with. here you are trying to strike balance, agreement, negotiation. in this case with iran to stop the development of a nuclear weapon. >> is the democratic leadership in the senate going to whip this vote? >> we are not doing it in the customary fashion. i will tell you why.
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we watched while 47 republican senators sent a letter to the ayatollah in the midst, don't waste your time negotiating with the president of the united states nor should you believe that anything he agrees to is going to be approved by congress or a president. 47. when the agreement came forward some were condemning it before the ink was dry, 10, 15 minutes before they read it. we are going to treat this as seriously as we should. we will take our time, read it. we will ask the questions attend the hearings before we make a decision. i have come out for it after reflection in reading it. other colleagues are in the process of going through that right now. >> one of the colleagues a lot of people have been looking towards is colleague in leadership and roommate for many years, chuck schumer. people view him as pivotal. he has not declared where he is. my question, how big of a deal is it for the white house in its relationship to your caucus in the senate if someone in
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leadership like chuck schumer doesn't come out and endorse this deal? >> chuck has to make the decision. i know it's very intensely personal for him. as well as an important political decision. he is taking his time. talked to him about it. he has met with the principals, secretary kerry, he has really taken his time to go through it carefully. he'll make his decision in due time. on his own schedule. in terms of his vote being determined by what happens. most of the members of the caucus respect chuck. but want to make their own decision on this important matter. his decision is not going to be decisive for most members of the caucus. >> senator dick durbin. thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> given the way domestic news coverage has gone down you would thing it was a deal negotiated
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by the u.s. and israel. it is not. there has been shockingly little coverage of how the almost 282 million people of iran view it. according to a report published, many iranian dissident whose oppose the regime and risk imprisonment and worse in doing so support the deal for its potential to open iranian society to the rest of the world. these are people often celebrated by many of the same hawks now condemning the deal. the guardian published a piece by an iranian american woman about conservative pro regime relatives in iran. was told by one cousin people believe the economy has to be built. they have seen they're just a country in a larger world. but if we're not paying enough attention to the iranians they're paying attention to us.
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both hearings on the deal have been broadcast on iranian state tv. joining us now, authors of "the ayatollah's democracy" and some one who has spent a lot of time in iran. great to have you here. i thought why are they showing congressional hearings? both the iranians and the white house have to sell the deal to their domestic constituents, you sell it saying we got the better side of the deal. if you are the iranians who better to make the case that you played them, house republicans. a little sample of what they play it on state tv. >> america got played like a five string quartet. >> iran will keep more than billions it is going to receive upfront basically as a signing bonus. >> now a policy to allow a state sponsor of terror to contain industrial nuclear development program. >> anyone who believes this is a good deal joins the ranks of the most naive people on the face of the earth. >> that does seem to be the calculation here.
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>> that's part of it, yeah. i also think that -- i would imagine, who knows what the motivations of the iranian state broadcasters were in this instance. basically the iranian people this was very important. people watching this. the country, a cab driver can tell you what swu means. people understand what's at stake for them. it affects them every single human being living in iran. >> because of the sanctions, impact the sanctions have had so profoundly? >> sanctions and their place in the world. they're isolated. they know they dent want to be isolated. an educated, young population. it affects every single person who lives in iran. america doesn't affect every single person who lives in america, despite what some of our senators and congressmen say in terms of being and untake by iranians or iran is going to attack us with nuclear weapons. it is important. staying up at night to watch the reports. >> this is the central overwhelming news in iran right now? >> far and away. >> if you are a person who follows the news, tuning into the evening broadcast, at the
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local coffee shop talking this is what you are talking? >> the only thing you are talking about. how it is going to affect your life? there is an employment, unemployment problem. economic problem, all kind of things. university graduates. a million graduates a year come out of topnotch universities in iran, where are they going to get jobs? >> can't find work. >> overwhelming what the deal means. >> in terms of iranian dissidents. i have seen numerous, published, does that sync up with your sense of where that part of the -- iranian populous is? >> sure. the only dissidents, hard to call them, exile group, mujahadin, who are only, widely despised in iran for siding with saddam hussein in the war. >> a complicated group. addressed them before. >> addressed them before. other than them it is almost universal the support for a nuclear deal. anybody who has either family in iran or cares about iranian people or cares about peace and wanting there to be peace
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between iran and countries particularly the united states. is going to want this deal. a good deal for the world, actually. and probably a good deal for iran, probably a better deal for the u.s. >> yeah, part of -- it's interesting because both sides have to sell it in the sort of zero sum terms. which is, there was one pie of, one pizza pie. we got more slices than they got. also possible that it is not zero sum. actually the deal could actually confer benefits on both, both ends of the equation. the whole world, the other people that negotiate the deal. >> what a lot of people are forgetting. senators and congressmen are forgetting when they talk about the money. it is iran's money. the u.s. is actually not giving up anything. no signing bonus. the u.s. is not giving up anything. it is iran that has given up everything. what the u.s. agreed how to do is stop punishing iran. that's all.
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>> right. right. >> the money flowing in. it's the money that would be flowing in absent the very intense regime of sanction that is cut off that money. >> exactly. deep spite the sanctions iran has accelerated its nuclear program over the years. and they haven't attacked the united states. they haven't attacked israel. so all the senators are worried that iran is going to suddenly turn around and attack israel or america. some have even said, why would they do that, now? why haven't they done it? it doesn't make sense. a lot of the argument doesn't make sense. >> always a pleasure. thank you. >> up next. donald trump's attorney goes on a shockingly vulgar tirade against a daily beast reporter. that's putting it mildly. plus the first female coach in nfl history jen welter joins me tonight. later with inaugural presidential debate a week away how straggling gop candidates are trying to eke their way on to the stage. >> i don't need to get every vote. i just need to got more than everybody else. do you like the passaaadd? it's a good looking car. this is the model rear end event. the model year end sales event. it's year end! it's
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with donald trump topping the polls, governor chris christie laid out his case to
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cnbc's john harwood. >> donald has skills and talents that made him wealthy and lots of people around him wealthy. a great thing. not the same skills that are transferable to governing. so you need to understand how you have to work with other people if you disagree with some one you can't fire them. >> not possible for him to be a successful president. >> it is much less likely for him to be successful than it is for me to be successful. i don't think it would be in the best interest of our party who have someone who i don't think would be an effective president to be the nominee. in the end that's what i'm running. >> chris christie's hard sell, will it pay all. what did the waitress make of all that? will he make it on the debate stage? how are the other candidates doing? much more ahead.
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donald trump apparently employs a donald trump. michael cohen, a special counsel for donald trump, sound shockingly like the donald, in an exchange with the daily beast reporter who unearthed one of the embarrassing subchapters in the long tabloid life. trump once said of his daughter when asked how he would react if she posed for playboy. i don't think ivanka would do that. obviously meant as a joke. not a particularly good one. the episode of the daily beast reporter asked donald trump about an assertion in a 1993 book "lost tycoon" contained a passage in which ivanka, said trump sexually assaulted her while they were still married.
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important, ivana trump disavowed the rape allegation at the time the book was published which makes cohen's response more amazing, cohen had plenty to say. you are talking about the front-runner of the gop presidential candidate and private individual who never raped anybody and understand that by the very definition, you can't rape a spouse. it is true, cohen added, you cannot rape your spouse. there is very clear case law. that is not at all correct. at all. since 1984, marital rape has been a crime in new york state. cohen turned to ivana trump's meaning. not the word you are frying to make it into. saying that she felt raped emotionally. she was not referring off to it as a critical matter and not in a literal sense though there are many literal senses to the word.
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perhaps more revealing. cohen threatened the reporter who had called to ask. saying, i will make sure that you and i meet one day in the courthouse. i will take you for every penny you still don't have. i will come after your daily beast and everybody else that you possibly know, cohen said. so i am warning you, tread very [ bleep ] lightly because what i am going to do to you is going to be [ bleep ] disgusting. you understand me? out of all that it was cohen's view of rape which drew the most attention. dnc chair saying in a statement this is a new low. rape is rape, full stop. there is no difference or division between forcible, legitimate, marital, rape. most shocking part of this. trump's lawyer thinks it is legal to rape your spouse. cohen today apologized in a statement which reads in part. rarely am i surprised by the press, the gall of this particular reporter to make a
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false allegation against mr. trump. stunned me. in my moment of shock and anger i made an inarticulate comment i do not believe and apologize for. ivana trump release aid story saying the story is without merit and she and donald trump are the best of friends. when asked for a statement from michael cohen has not received a reply. donald trump disavowed his comments but will not fire him. you wrote this profile of donald trump and his people were furious at you. they came after you. i'm curious when you read this in the daily beast, yeah, this sounds like the guys i operated with. >> it is emblematic of the way trump, kind of mini-trumps operate. remember that trump doesn't surround himself with the most credential, most, the best money can buy, pr operatives. he surrounds himself with people who are like him, admire him, want to be like him. so with, when you, you said
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that, michael cohen sounds a lot like donald trump. it is true. it's not just michael cohen. all of his political, i deal mostly with his political operative thousands. all of them sound a lot like him. they adopt this sort of off brand trumpism, where they try to immitate him. and it works to a certain extent. but like the thing that you have to remember, trump is, trump is. >> cracking up the thought of austin powers style minime, campaign office meetings. where everyone is like. >> that's what's so fast night i you think what it would be look to have a campaign run by mini-donald trumps. chaos, right. in a lot of ways it is. the story i wrote at buzz feed talks about how they're constant, all advisers are constantly at war with each other. and trying to bludgeon each other off to death to prove
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supremacy. that's huh they think donald trump will respect them and think they're good operatives. >> there is also, strikes me aside from just the factually inaccurate story of marital rape. ivana trump said this is not true. >> of it's insane. insane. >> just like, it's -- going after a reporter that hard. just made me think is this something they do all the time. the way they operate in the press. >> the thing about covering donald trump. weird because, to a certain xh -- to a certain extent you are being a bull fighter. taunt him. regardless who you are, where you are writing, there are certain buttons you can press that will cause him to print out your article and hand write like across it, he does, have it messengered to you. reporters all over the country have those framed on their walls. the thing about trump is there is a line. it is fun for a while.
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but then, but there is a certain like, unhinged quality to it. you don't know where they will stop, right? >> i will take you. that is a very serious threat. that wasn't a joke. that was if you print this thing, about my, my client, man i work for, which again, the thing is true. there was a printed allegation. written carefully in the book. >> i will come after you. what i am going to do to you is going to be bleeping disgusting. >> that's the crazy, like a low rent gangster movie. >> joked last night, trump 2016, what i am going to do to you is going to be bleeping disgusting, also make america great again. both of those things. >> two bullet points in the donald trump campaign. >> kind of the campaign he is running. is there actually an actual campaign structure edifice. is this a real thing with real people that have experience doing the thing that has to be
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done which is like figure out the caucuses? >> yeah, there are. this is the thing that is so interesting for the last like several years, within his inner circle there has been two warring camps. when he decided to actually run for president for real this time. he didn't, like, turn to either of them. he hired a few actual professionals who are anti-establishment republicans, work for the koch brothers, and fit the mold of minitrump. somebody is putting together the massive campaign -- >> been on the campaign. someone has to do it. there has got to be spread sheets. there has to be something. >> yes, absolutely. he has people who are organizing the campaign. but it is still. he has all of these people in the periphery. one of the questions one of the many, many, questions about this whole episode is why was michael cohen speaking for donald trump. >> a call, michael cohen, a trump employee answered. >> that happened to me. asked michael cohen a question about something unrelated to the campaign.
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his campaign man called back. >> the daily beast, calling the question, whether that is legal, there is legal regulation as but this. great to see you. thank you very much. >> yeah. >> coming up in response to some of the theories surrounding the death of sandra bland, texas authorities today released hours of new video. we will show you some of that next. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now... to what it needs to become. leave early
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today authorities in texas release hours of video of sandra bland in jail in part they said because of rumors she was seriously hurt or deceased by the time she arrived at the county jail. officials claim the jail has been under cyber attack. they received death threats. bland died of apparent hanging in custody. three days after being pulled over for failing to signal a lane change. now, there are multiple ongoing investigations into both her arrest and her death. this is footage of bland entering the building through a secure entry way on july 10th. the day of her arrest. bland can later be seen sitting in her street clothes in the intake area. arresting officer is there. and later, he is at a table filling out paperwork. another officer is standing before her, filling out her first mental health evaluation. a third officer is present. in a later portion of the video, bland is in the orange jumpsuit provided by the prison. some times narration of the video as he presented to reporters today he does so here
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as well. >> there she is. so she is, she has been sleeping in a holding cell. and this is where the infamous mug shot is taken against the wall. where people have gone to great lengths to try to insinuate or imply she is deceased. and the photograph you can actually see the photograph being taken on the computer by the jail right there. >> sandra bland was alive on the day she arrived. she was found dead in her jail cell by apparent hanging on the morning of july 13th. the question that many are asking that has driven so much of the protest outrage anguish and attention to her death is -- would sandra bland be alive if she was never pulled over for failing to signal a lane change? magni cent creatures take flight,
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tonight minnesota based dentist walter palmer at the center of an international firestorm after officials in zimbabwe accused him of killing cecil one of the most famous lions in africa this month. conservation officials say the 55-year-old american tourist paid two men to lure the big cat out of protected game preserve in zimbabwe using bait, shot the famed lion with a cross bow. tracked it for 40 hours and finished it off with a gun. the 13-year-old lion's bed was found skinned and beheaded according to officials. >> the lion which is a big treasure. information so far still shows there was money which was exchanged to the tune of around $55,000.
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>> walter palmer the man who officials identified is an avid big game hunter who posed with kills before. in 2008 he paid a fine and pled guilty in connection with killing a black bear. in a statement, he has not been contacted by any authorities and would cooperate with any investigation saying, i hired several professional guide and they secured all proper permits to my knowledge. everything was legal and properly handled and conducted. i had no idea the lion was a known favorite. since his name was released. his office has become a make shift memorial. the hash tag continues to trend on twitter. the yelp page for his office, river bluff dental has been overrun with negative comments. he removed his personal facebook page after it was flooded with comments, wishing his children get all the bad things he has to offer and that he get cancer. joining me now from the international fund for animal welfare.
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jeff, what do you make of this story? my first thought when i heard this was that i did not know this was a thing that, that people did. >> you are right. actually most people are surprised they find out americans can legally go and kill an african lion. the verdict is out on the case whether this was done legally or not legally. if lions are threatened, endangered, there has been a 60% decline in the species in 30 years. if the's in trouble. it needs help. why are we allowing americans or citizens to kill them for sport. doesn't make economic, biological or ethical sense. >> there is two issues here. right. there is the fact there is an industry of big game hunting in which people can legally go off into africa and to the subcontinent, sub-saharan africa and to essentially hunt big game
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in a legal fashion for tens of thousand of dollars, right? >> absolutely. not just african lions, includes endangered african elephants, rhinoceros and species in great decline, leopards or giraffes. >> now in, so that, that is the legal part of this. this appears to be something shadier, right, or at lest allegation from the officials here, that actually the lion was in a preserve and was collared is that correct? what's the significance of the lion having a collar? >> the lion was studied, long term studied, a celebrity in the national park. it brings in revenue. when tourists come wanting to see the lion. by killing it for the one time safari, taking it out of the park, in fact the value is lost for the long term for people benefiting from the animal being there. we learn again and again from polling and from the economics of the situation that people will pay to see animals on safari.
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majority do not want to see them killed. they want to see them. take pictures. nature safaris bring in 15 time the income of any hunting in africa. >> there is a frenzy right now. i want to say for the record. i don't think people should be wishing this person gets cancer, et cetera. there is a justice system. and he may be extradited. zimbabwe talking about that. extradition treaty if i understand this correctly. what do you, account for the comprehensive revulsion that people have from learning the story? >> people love wild animals. polls have shown up to 80% here in america. when polled recently said that they do not want to see imperilled species killed for sport. i dent want to see individuals targeted. i would look to see the system changed so people don't hunt rhinos, elephants. lions. this is 2015. we don't have to kill an animal to save the. >> jeff, thank you for joining me. really appreciate it.
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>> first time in history a woman will coach in the nfl. jen welter, coach, just hired by the arizona cardinals, coaching intern working with inside linebackers. >> i could not have dreamed big enough to imagine this day would ever come. i didn't start playing football to be here. i didn't even dream that it was possible. and i think the beauty of this. a dream i never could have had. another dream girls can grow up and have. >> got a chance to talk with jen welter this evening and she told me how she got her new job. >> i was coaching with the texas revolution, an indoor team. and when bruce aryans commented that he thought he could see a female coaching in the nfl, my head coach, devin wyman reached out of and said i have the girl for you. he left a message for him. eventually, you know, coach called him back. he said well tell me about this girl. and i guess -- he liked the
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questions that, that, you know, liked the answers to the questions that he got. later invited me out to otas. we talked. and you know it was at that time that coach told me it was in his heart. like he didn't know yet if -- he could make the internship happen. but he wanted to. and with the approval of a great team around him, with the -- with the bidwells and steve, they backed his play. and brought me here to arizona. >> you have had a lot of experience. played professional football, women's league, on a men's professional team. you have had experience being the only woman in these environments that are dominated everywhere you look by men. has that been difficult? >> you know it's challenging. but i look at those times as really the opportunities for growth and to change kind of the way we look at things. you know? i remember -- jesse armstead, coach with the giants.
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linebackers coach. i have known him for years. he called me and he said, baby girl you are changing the way that guys look at females and what they're capable of. and he said i just listen to my players on the giants talk about how seeing you play with the men made them believe that women could truly do anything. and if you are not willing to step into those challenging situations then change never happens. yeah, there is some lodgisting -- logistics stuff, and a lot of laughs, you didn't foresee, conversations that you laugh that you stepped into. those are times that really are, are great opportunities for growth. and i kind of love those challenges. those are my favorite parts of my own personal story. >> do you think we will see, obviously a coach on the spurs in the nba, right now, she actually coached the team. >> becky hammond. >> is this something we will see more, five, ten years, more of this in the nfl and professional
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leagues? >> of course you are. it takes one person to step forward, not any type of difference, not just male, female. you have seen it a lot in terms of breaking racial boundaries in this country. at one time, you know it was unheard of to have a head coach who was african-american. and now look where we are now. today with the league. but it takes those special people to break through and kind of take the initial hits. you know, i look at it as like, you know, a lead blocker in football. the fullback takes the hits. but they open the hole for somebody else to go and run through it. and once the hole has been opened, why would you close it back up? you know? when you prove that there is something different that can be added and someone else who is qualified, you can't unlearn that information. and, yeah, you have to come into
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situations where they embrace it. but of course, when you see the success of becky hammond, other people are going to say maybe we look a little deeper into the depth chart and see where the best candidates are available regardless of gender or race or, you know, any of those factors. >> jen welter, great pleasure. thank you very much. congratulations. >> thank you. >> up next with now 16 gop presidential candidates, ten spots in the debate stage. who will be left behind? stay with us. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me... and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic this is humira.
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how much would you love it if we stopped asking you about donald trump? >> i don't answer anymore. that's my position. >> i don't comment on his comments. just not worth the time. >> governor chris christie's determination not to comment on donald trump lasted three days. broke his silence last night responding to a trump supporter at a town hall in keen, new hampshire. >> donald would tell speaker boehner i want this bill. i want it on my desk this is what is best for america. speaker boehner would look at him and say, yeah, well i don't have the votes for that. i can't give it to you. he can't look at him and say, speaker boehner, you're fired. he can't do that. you could do it on a reality tv show. but you cannot fire the speaker of the house or the senate majority leader because you don't get what you want. you have to have some experience in knowing how to deal with people in that way. he has not shown that. >> i'm not so sure about that. the man has done a lot. >> we have a fundamental disagreement. >> that's right. >> that's okay, vote for donald trump.
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it's fine. it is a free country. you can vote for who ever you want. i don't need to get every vote. i just need to get everybody else. >> his push for votes in new hampshire doesn't seem to be working. recent poll of likely voters put chris christie in eighth place. in new hampshire, a state he is focusing his energies on. the front-runner there, donald trump. he got six times more support. joining me to assess chances of chris christie and the other 55, sorry, 15 republican presidential candidates as they scramble. rick, i thought that chris christie answer was a great answer. and, and it was such a through the looking glass moment. christie had built up his brand, particularly, outside of new jersey to -- to tea party activists as this like i'm the guy who basically says you are fired to people at town halls. here he is trying to hop on the
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other side and be look it doesn't actually work that way. when you are a politician where you are governing in any fashion like all of this bluster is only going to got you so far. >> look, i don't know how much chris christie consciously modeled his image on donald trump. the character that donald trump plays on tv doesn't exist. when a guy like christie is out there trying to do the same, big swagger thing, after a while it runs into reality. when you have somebody more outrageous, deliberately provocative, more crazy on every axis, you can't chase that as chris christie who is in the single to low digits. low single digits right now. almost an afterthought in the campaign. >> i thought it was interesting the latest polling had kasich creeping into third in new hampshire. kasich is someone who declared later than everyone else. he also, you know, has -- fight a distinguished resume, he has been in washington, the governor. got elected in a blue state.
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what do you think of his chances and do you, is it possible for him to make the debate stage, does it matter if he does? >> he is the ohio governor. kind of amazing. if you asked average americans what the most important state in a presidential contest is they will say florida or ohio. we have got the governor running and look at the week that was. he announced. but you don't remember that because rand paul chain sawed the tax code, lindsey graham put his phone in a blender. mike huckabee had comments about israelis in the oven, donald trump wore golf shoes on the border, the week leading up to the first debate. i don't think this is the republican presidential primary that any republican presidential primary voters expected. and i love the idea of trump somehow pulling directly from christie. as if all of these voters are sitting there going i like that chris christie, i just wish he were a little meaner, slightly
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more erratic. then i could get behind that guy. >> here's part of the problem, rick. you and i talked about this. a writer i really like, a conservative in a kind of unorthodox way. he said, you have four people in the democratic primary. more ideological breadth there between jim webb, hillary clinton and bernie sanders than 15 on the republican sigh. part of the issue all of them have both in getting on the debate stage and what they'll sayen the debate, there is a pretty robust consensus on most of the main policy areas. hard to break through. >> yes, a lot of things about presentation and style and affect that are going to really be on display during this debate. you are going to see folk who have very solid conservative records, lot of very similar philosophies within a fairly big band of what comprises modern conservatism.
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then there is going to be the character donald trump plays on tv. all the people with policy opinions they main vary, in the general mainstream of conservatism. and the question is going to be which one is going to put on the best show and bring in some real heat on donald trump in terms of policy and, and substance in the course of the debate. >> you know, jess, it was bernie sanders that floated the idea of cross party primary debates. right. why, i think this is actually a fantastic idea. for precisely in some ways the reason that rick was saying which is, you know there is, there is particularly in the huge republican field with substantive limited disagreement, why not have bernie sanders, john kasich, and john webb, and hillary clinton and ted cruz. i would love that. >> i can't wait to get done to the contrast between what the
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democrat agenda is and republican agenda. on the republican side you have a spectrum on some issues. some people want to have a pathway to some sort of normalization for mexican undocumented immigrants. some people want to electrify a fence. that's a bit of breathing room there between the two. but compare that with hillary clinton's pathway to citizenship for everybody who is here as an undocumented immigrant you. have a huge difference in vision for the country. i'm kind of excited to explore that. i would look to get to that point. >> i would like to see hillary clinton debating ted cruz early on. >> ted cruz would like that too. >> a set of one-on-ones very early on. you know, no holds barred. rick would you endorse that? >> i would endorse a thunderdome style, no holds barred, lights out match, folding chairs, ladders, people off the turnbuckles. think it's got great legs.
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>> there is a clip of donald trump at a wwf event getting smacked down i think by the undertaker. we should pull it up and play it for tomorrow. thank you. >> presidential. >> that's good. >> that's all in. rachel maddow starts now. >> as we get closer to the start of the primary. the word thunderdome gets used more and more often. >> a good model. >> eventually everybody will have a chain saw not just rand paul and all have them in the same room. amazing. thank you, chris. >> see you. >> thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. 1985, i was 12. 1985 was a big year. it was not because that's the year the falcon and snowman came out. an amazing spy movie. for nonfiction, pop culture reasons, 1985 was called the year of the spy. on may 20th, 1985, a chief warrant officer in the u.s. navy was arrested by the fbi after his wife basically narced him out to the u.s. government for spying for the soviet union.
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